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Post by Portland Buckaroos on Aug 24, 2021 15:00:35 GMT -5
Issue: Implementing a rule to reduce the number of ties in regular season match-ups for the 2021 season.
This poll will be active for 48 hours from the time it is posted. A majority of votes (rather than a plurality) is required to enact a rule change. If no majority is reached, the poll will be run again with only the two options that received the most votes. In the case where there are not two clear options to run off, the poll will run again. Option 1: In order to avoid ties, the ‘GOALS’ category will count for two points rather than one, bringing the total number of points up to an odd value Pros: No extra steps making it simple to calculate, easy to watch develop over the course of the match-up, automatically displayed in fantrax Cons: Will be influenced by rosters that focus on goals
Option 2: When a match-up is tied, whichever team has the most category wins on the Saturday game. In the event that a match-up contains two Saturdays, the last Saturday of the match-up will be used to determine a winner. Pros: Uses a team’s entire roster, encourages players to use goalies later in the match-up rather than standing on good early results, Saturday has the greatest number of NHL games to give the best representation of a teams roster Cons: More likely to be influenced by injuries, diminishes the value of players with NHL teams that play fewer Saturday games Option 3: No changes to the current system, no tie-breakers for regular season match-ups. -> Chosen by mail-in ranked voting
Pros: Ties haven’t been an issue until recently Cons: Ties have been an issue recently, possibly due in part to the shortened season Voting in the polls is your civic duty. Voting is good. Voting is double-plus good. Vote.
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Post by Moscow Red Army on Aug 24, 2021 15:09:17 GMT -5
The "Saturday" proposal is St. Roch/Doug's, the "Goals" proposal is mine (Moscow/Adam).
I want to keep these threads as focused and streamlined as possible, so please levy any clarification or questions to the related proposer, leaving it to them to answer (I want to avoid misinformation and speculation).
Please no spam, and try to be as concise as possible. Lets leave the posts to a minimum, and try to avoid getting into philosophical back-and-forths and conundrums. Let's keep this process as painless as possible so we can move on!
Thanks folks.
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St. Roch Hawks
General Manager
Doug
Every season is a reincarnation - and nobody does reincarnation better than me
Posts: 2,785
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Post by St. Roch Hawks on Aug 24, 2021 16:55:59 GMT -5
Question for Adam, the Goals Proposal advocate - By making goals worth 2 points is it not possible that a team can win less categories in a week but still win the week? Is it not possible a team could win more categories than its opponent in a week but still lose the week?
Example: Team A wins Goals, +/-, Hits, STP and SV% Team B wins Assists, SOG, Blocked Shots, TOI, GAA and Saves Both teams tie on goalie wins
Team A wins despite only winning five categories Team B loses despite winning six categories
This would literally reverse the results as they have been in the past where Team B would have won 6-5-1 and now loses 6.5-6.5 because goals not only allowed Team A to catch them in points but also served as the tiebreaker. Correct?
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Post by Portland Buckaroos on Aug 24, 2021 17:06:33 GMT -5
Question for Adam, the Goals Proposal advocate - By making goals worth 2 points is it not possible that a team can win less categories in a week but still win the week? Is it not possible a team could win more categories than its opponent in a week but still lose the week? Example: Team A wins Goals, +/-, Hits, STP and SV% Team B wins Assists, SOG, Blocked Shots, TOI, GAA and Saves Both teams tie on goalie wins Team A wins despite only winning five categories Team B loses despite winning six categories This would literally reverse the results as they have been in the past where Team B would have won 6-5-1 and now loses 6-6 because goals not only allowed Team A to catch them in points but also served as the tiebreaker. Correct? The way I read Adam's proposal, this would simply result as a 6-6-1 tie. The goal category would be worth 2 points rather than being a tie breaker, it doesn't serve as both. Hopefully Adam gets a chance to chime in. For what it's worth, I think the GOALS proposal is a nice automated solution that will reduce the number of ties in match-ups, and the SATURDAY proposal will be more effective at reducing ties but take a bit more to parse.
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St. Roch Hawks
General Manager
Doug
Every season is a reincarnation - and nobody does reincarnation better than me
Posts: 2,785
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Post by St. Roch Hawks on Aug 24, 2021 17:13:06 GMT -5
FWIW - The Saturday proposal takes about 30 seconds to figure out.
1. Log on to Fantrax 2. Click on "Live Scoring" 3. Click on "Day" 4. Look at Saturday's results
Done.
Also, if you are correct that Goals is simply worth two points and is NOT also the tiebreaker it would still take a win from Team B in that scenario and create a tie, right? The team that won the most categories in that scenario (Team B) would still not win the week, right?
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Post by Portland Buckaroos on Aug 24, 2021 17:23:08 GMT -5
FWIW - The Saturday proposal takes about 30 seconds to figure out. 1. Log on to Fantrax 2. Click on "Live Scoring" 3. Click on "Day" 4. Look at Saturday's results Done. Also, if you are correct that Goals is simply worth two points and is NOT also the tiebreaker it would still take a win from Team B in that scenario and create a tie, right? The team that won the most categories in that scenario (Team B) would still not win the week, right? All correct, although I'm not sure if/how the tie-breaker gets implemented in fantrax. That might lead to some weirdness with the standings? Still, it's more work than having it be completely automated, which is all I'm saying. It's a toss-up for me anyway.
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Post by Moscow Red Army on Aug 24, 2021 19:46:33 GMT -5
Question for Adam, the Goals Proposal advocate - By making goals worth 2 points is it not possible that a team can win less categories in a week but still win the week? Is it not possible a team could win more categories than its opponent in a week but still lose the week? Example: Team A wins Goals, +/-, Hits, STP and SV% Team B wins Assists, SOG, Blocked Shots, TOI, GAA and Saves Both teams tie on goalie wins Team A wins despite only winning five categories Team B loses despite winning six categories This would literally reverse the results as they have been in the past where Team B would have won 6-5-1 and now loses 6-6 because goals not only allowed Team A to catch them in points but also served as the tiebreaker. Correct? The way I read Adam's proposal, this would simply result as a 6-6-1 tie. The goal category would be worth 2 points rather than being a tie breaker, it doesn't serve as both. Hopefully Adam gets a chance to chime in. For what it's worth, I think the GOALS proposal is a nice automated solution that will reduce the number of ties in match-ups, and the SATURDAY proposal will be more effective at reducing ties but take a bit more to parse. The way Jason read this is correct. The way I've intended this proposal is that Goals won't ALSO serve as its own tiebreaker, though that is something we could consider in a future year if there's support behind that. Fundamentally, this is about making 13 points up for grabs in a given match-up, as opposed to the even 12 points that we have now. We keep our 12 categories as is, but make the number of points up for grabs an odd number, helping to reduce the likelihood of splits/ties. No option can eliminate ties completely, and this proposal is about trying to avoid them in the first place.
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St. Roch Hawks
General Manager
Doug
Every season is a reincarnation - and nobody does reincarnation better than me
Posts: 2,785
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Post by St. Roch Hawks on Aug 24, 2021 20:51:14 GMT -5
Got it. So yes, a team could win more categories in a given week and yet not win the week.
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Post by Moscow Red Army on Aug 25, 2021 17:44:50 GMT -5
Questions for Doug: - If 2 evenly-matched teams are split 6-6 by the end of the match-up, and also went 6-6 on the Saturday, is the match-up still registered as a tie in the standings? Or is there another step taken?
[/i][/u] Match-up: Team A wins Goals, +/-, Hits, STP, Goalie Wins and SV% (6) Team B wins Assists, SOG, Blocks, TOI, GAA and Saves (6) On Saturday Team A wins Goals, Assists, STP, TOI, GAA and SV% (6) Team B wins +/-, SOG, Hits, Blocks, TOI, Goalie Wins, Saves (6) [li] This is for both the regular season and playoffs, correct?[/li] [/ul]
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St. Roch Hawks
General Manager
Doug
Every season is a reincarnation - and nobody does reincarnation better than me
Posts: 2,785
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Post by St. Roch Hawks on Aug 25, 2021 21:02:53 GMT -5
Questions for Doug: - If 2 evenly-matched teams are split 6-6 by the end of the match-up, and also went 6-6 on the Saturday, is the match-up still registered as a tie in the standings? Or is there another step taken?
[/i][/u] Match-up: Team A wins Goals, +/-, Hits, STP, Goalie Wins and SV% (6) Team B wins Assists, SOG, Blocks, TOI, GAA and Saves (6) On Saturday Team A wins Goals, Assists, STP, TOI, GAA and SV% (6) Team B wins +/-, SOG, Hits, Blocks, TOI, Goalie Wins, Saves (6) [li] This is for both the regular season and playoffs, correct?[/li] [/ul][/quote] This would be for both regular season and playoffs, yes. I like the idea that the team you had that week settles the tie if at all possible and not a matchup that happened months earlier or over the course of months when your team may have looked different due to injury or trades. If you have a strong team that week that's the team that should get to settle the matchup if possible. If the overall matchup is 6-6 and the Saturday score is 6-6 then the regular season matchup would end in a tie but the playoff matchup would continue down the tiebreaker scenarios until a resolution was found. This simply makes the first tiebreaker the Saturday matchup but if that still doesn't settle things then we continue down the path from there.
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Post by Moscow Red Army on Aug 27, 2021 14:40:18 GMT -5
The results of the secondary weighted vote is as follows:
Option A: ‘GOALS’ Proposal Option B: Saturday Proposal Option C: No Change
[Most in favour of] #1 - #2 - #3 - [Least in favour of]
Haukiputaan Ahmat #1 - C #2 - A #3 - B
Melbourne Bushrangers #1 - B #2 - C #3 - A
Morweena Reimnoceri #1 - C #2 - B #3 - A
Moscow Red Army #1 - A #2 - B #3 - C
Nebraska Buffalo #1 - B #2 - C #3 - A
Oslo Mastodon #1 - A #2 - C #3 - B
Portland Buckaroos #1 - C #2 - B #3 - A
Simi Valley Kings #1 - B #2 - A #3 - C
St. Roch Hawks #1 - B #2 - C #3 - A
Tampa Bay Thunder #1 - A #2 - C #3 - B
Vegas Aces Wild #1 - C #2 - A #3 - B
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St. Roch Hawks
General Manager
Doug
Every season is a reincarnation - and nobody does reincarnation better than me
Posts: 2,785
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Post by St. Roch Hawks on Aug 27, 2021 14:50:42 GMT -5
By my calculations: A - "Goals" = 24 B - "Saturday" = 22 C - "No Change" = 20 No change wins followed by Saturday and then Goals. A "Goals": - Three 1st place votes
- Three 2nd place votes
- Five 3rd place votes
B "Saturday": - Four 1st place votes
- Three 2nd place votes
- Four 3rd place votes
C "No change": - Four 1st place votes
- Five 2nd place votes
- Two 3rd place votes
Please check my math/totals but that's what I see.
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