St. Roch Hawks
General Manager
Doug
Every season is a reincarnation - and nobody does reincarnation better than me
Posts: 2,785
|
Post by St. Roch Hawks on Aug 28, 2013 14:32:26 GMT -5
I propose a change in the rules beginning next summer. I suggest that if you have a full roster, or are leading in enough active bids for UFAs that your roster would be full should you win each of them, you MUST disclose who you would release/buyout in the text of any future UFA bids.
For example.
I have $10 in cap space and one empty roster spot.
I am currently leading in the bidding for Francois Beauchemin, which would give me a full roster.
I put in a bid on Stephen Weiss but in that bid I MUST disclose that I would release Zach Kassian from his ELC in order to make room for Weiss.
As it stands now you don't have to disclose that information until after you've won the auction but I think if you have a full roster and are still bidding on players it's time to lay your cards on the table and let everyone know who you are planning on getting rid of in order to make room.
|
|
|
Post by Moscow Red Army on Aug 28, 2013 14:36:45 GMT -5
I disagree with this, but I'm putting this out there now:
You CANNOT make buying out a player a condition on a bid. This only works for EL Releases.
|
|
|
Post by Vegas Aces Wild on Aug 28, 2013 14:38:51 GMT -5
But you can officially Waive & Buyout your Roster player then immediately put in a bid, correct? (if your player gets picked up, then you're off the hook for his salary)
|
|
|
Post by Moscow Red Army on Aug 28, 2013 14:40:46 GMT -5
Yes, you're allowed to do that. You have to mention it's BUYOUT waivers though, because just regularly waiving a player does not guarantee he's coming off your roster.
Also, Doug, whatever happened to "See you on October 1st!"? That was one short sabbatical!
|
|
St. Roch Hawks
General Manager
Doug
Every season is a reincarnation - and nobody does reincarnation better than me
Posts: 2,785
|
Post by St. Roch Hawks on Aug 28, 2013 14:41:14 GMT -5
What is the argument against naming the ELC player you would release as part of the bid?
|
|
St. Roch Hawks
General Manager
Doug
Every season is a reincarnation - and nobody does reincarnation better than me
Posts: 2,785
|
Post by St. Roch Hawks on Aug 28, 2013 14:45:28 GMT -5
I was checking the boards on behalf of another owner and noticed that an owner had made a bid which would have put him over the roster limit. I noticed he didn't mention who he was planning on dropping. I didn't think that was right. It's perfectly legal, though, which is why I made this post.
If you are making a bid that would put you over the roster limit I think it's only fair that you disclose who you are planning on getting rid of to make room for that player. That information could be something that plays a part in another owner deciding to exceed your bid or not. If I know that you will drop Player X should you win that auction, and I want Player X, I might let you win the auction just to get Player X.
|
|
|
Post by Moscow Red Army on Aug 28, 2013 14:46:39 GMT -5
Because that forces people to show who they would be cutting while potentially not even winning a new player. That takes a manager's leverage away in trying to trade that same EL Player if they'd like to pursue that avenue.
|
|
St. Roch Hawks
General Manager
Doug
Every season is a reincarnation - and nobody does reincarnation better than me
Posts: 2,785
|
Post by St. Roch Hawks on Aug 28, 2013 14:49:32 GMT -5
But again, you're making a bid to exceed the roster without having to disclose who you would drop to make room for that player. That's having your cake and eating it, too. I think if you've filled your roster with TERM and/or ELC players and are STILL bidding on players it's time to put your cards on the table and name which ELC player you are going to drop to add another TERM player.
|
|
|
Post by Moscow Red Army on Aug 28, 2013 14:52:55 GMT -5
If you want Player X, then make a trade offer for Player X to that manager.
As it states in Rule i) of the Free Agent Bidding thread: "i) If you win an auction, but don't have the roster spots to accommodate it, you will be forced to immediately drop an EL Player to make room on your roster. If you are not reachable within a short period of time after winning an auction under these circumstances, the commissioner will decide which of your EL Players is to be released, and immediately do so. If you are knowingly going to be putting yourself in this situation, you are able to list your desired EL Release along with your bid (i.e. If I win this auction, I will EL Release PLAYER A)."
No one HAS to post who they are dropping currently. Some people have just chosen to do so. As long as the player being dropped is mentioned somewhere (publicly or privately to the commish) before, OR immediately after winning an auction, you're okay.
|
|
St. Roch Hawks
General Manager
Doug
Every season is a reincarnation - and nobody does reincarnation better than me
Posts: 2,785
|
Post by St. Roch Hawks on Aug 28, 2013 14:57:07 GMT -5
I know the rule. I think the rule stinks. I don't think you should get to wait until AFTER you've exceeded the roster size before you have to disclose which ELC player you are getting rid of. I believe it should be required as part of the bid that would exceed your roster size.
This is a minor change to the rule but it's one that I think is fair and is overdue. You, the Commish, knowing this information privately while also being an owner that is involved in the bidding is not exactly fair, either. If the owner has to tell you he should have to tell everyone and he should have to do it before he exceeds the roster limit. That's my opinion.
|
|
|
Post by Moscow Red Army on Aug 28, 2013 14:59:07 GMT -5
But again, you're making a bid to exceed the roster without having to disclose who you would drop to make room for that player. That's having your cake and eating it, too. I think if you've filled your roster with TERM and/or ELC players and are STILL bidding on players it's time to put your cards on the table and name which ELC player you are going to drop to add another TERM player. That's the beauty of EL Players though. They can be dropped immediately. The way it is, it encourages people to spend the salary they do have in Free Agency, without the risk of sapping the value of one of their assets in the process. Because salary does not carry over year-to-year, people are encouraged to spend what they have. If people have to show their hand (disclose an EL to be dropped), AND still not win an auction, they literally just killed the value of the EL Player for no reason. No benefit whatsoever. I don't want to discourage people from making auctions and bids. Again, if you're that passionate about an EL Player on someone else's team, go make them an offer. Don't wait around trying to poach them. Give that person a fair return, based on your evaluation of that player's talents and abilities.
|
|
|
Post by Moscow Red Army on Aug 28, 2013 15:02:10 GMT -5
I know the rule. I think the rule stinks. I don't think you should get to wait until AFTER you've exceeded the roster size before you have to disclose which ELC player you are getting rid of. I believe it should be required as part of the bid that would exceed your roster size. This is a minor change to the rule but it's one that I think is fair and is overdue. You, the Commish, knowing this information privately while also being an owner that is involved in the bidding is not exactly fair, either. If the owner has to tell you he should have to tell everyone and he should have to do it before he exceeds the roster limit. That's my opinion. And my opinion is that it's fine as is. I have no desire to abuse my authority. I'm not demanding people let me know as soon as they put a bid in. Wait until there's 2 seconds left before it closes to let me know. Let me know immediately AFTER you win the player, when all is guaranteed. As long as I've got a name when I go to PROCESS the deal, there's no issue whatsoever. As it states, I will even CONTACT YOU PERSONALLY if you've already won and ask you for a name after the fact.
|
|
|
Post by Moscow Red Army on Aug 28, 2013 15:07:26 GMT -5
To me, this proposal is just a means for people to look after their own self interest, and to capitalize on other people's assets. Owners shouldn't have to sacrifice the value of their own assets (EL Players) that they drafted and developed for years to pursue a TERM player that they may not even get.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2013 15:32:36 GMT -5
I actually agree with Doug. And I don't think we've ever agreed on a rule change.
I think that to put in a bid, a manager should have to either:
a) Have an open roster spot b) Declare which player will be dropped
Personally, I don't see a difference between buying out a player immediately and dropping an EL player. But I do think that it MUST be declared ahead of time. I understand the rules state differently right now, but those rules are stupid.
If I had my way on making the rules, a player would have to be dropped before making a bid on a player. That, to me, is the most fair option. If you don't have a roster spot, you can't bid to sign another player.
|
|
St. Roch Hawks
General Manager
Doug
Every season is a reincarnation - and nobody does reincarnation better than me
Posts: 2,785
|
Post by St. Roch Hawks on Aug 28, 2013 15:36:28 GMT -5
To me, this proposal is just a means for people to look after their own self interest, and to capitalize on other people's assets. Owners shouldn't have to sacrifice the value of their own assets (EL Players) that they drafted and developed for years to pursue a TERM player that they may not even get. Adam - Nobody is making a team with a full roster bid on more players. If you don't want to disclose who you are willing to drop either trade a player to create space or don't bid! But if you are going to bid on a player that would exceed the roster size I don't think its asking too much for you to disclose who you are willing to drop to add that player. If you don't win the auction and disclosed which player you were willing to drop for nothing, so what? Is the value of that player really diminished? That's like saying none of us should ever post a trading block because all it does is allow other owners to capitalize on our assets and sacrifices the value of our own assets. If you say: "I bid $5 / 2 years / $10 and if I win I'll drop Freddie Hamilton" and then lose the auction, you still have Freddie Hamilton. Anyone that wants to get him still has to trade you something to get him and you can negotiate that price. All you've done is admit that yes, you are willing to get rid of him if a better player is available. I don't think that's much of an admission or weakens your position or the value of your assets.
|
|